Author Topic: New 1W4 CDI  (Read 3224 times)

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Offline DynoTronix

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New 1W4 CDI
« on: November 27, 2016, 08:35:23 AM »
Hi guys,

I'm in the process of refurbishing a 1W4 CDI for one of my customers.  I'm basically installing new electronics into his old OEM metal shell.

Electrically speaking, I could make this CDI by using the circuit board from the 23X design, I would just need to change about five component values.  I would also use the same box as the 23X, which is much smaller than the OEM metal shell, but I don't think that would be a problem.  If anyone has interest in this CDI, please let me know.

The 1W4 CDI fits the following bikes:

•   1976 YZ400C
•   1977 IT250D
•   1977 IT400D
•   1977 YZ400D
•   1978 IT250E
•   1978 IT400E
•   1978 YZ400E

Regards,

Bill

Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
So, this would have the same level of improvement as the 23X , Bill?

I'll have one.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2016, 10:27:52 AM »
So, this would have the same level of improvement as the 23X , Bill?

I'll have one.

Yes, Pete, this one would have the same types of improvements.  I also want to make one other change to this design.  The OEM module has the CDI capacitor charging through the ignition coil.  Most CDIs have the capacitor charging through a diode, which I think is more efficient and better way to go.  Without the diode, the ignition pulse waveform doesn't look very good, and I think robs some performance.  I don't have a test bike for this model, so I will only be able to bench test the design.

It will be a couple of weeks until I have some ready.  I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your continued support.

Best regards,

Bill

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2016, 07:16:36 AM »
I need some help, please.

In the process of working on this CDI I'm getting more confused all the time.  I see that some part sites list a 77 & 78 IT and YZ 250 & 400.  Other sites, like Partzilla, only show the YZ400 for those years.  To confuse this further, most sites are showing two possible electrical systems for the same model year.  I don't know if this was due to a mid year change in production, or a change by region of the world. ??? ??? ???

So the question is, which is right?  Does anyone have a list of which bikes were made by model year, and or region? 

I don't know which references can trust.

Regards

Bill

Offline Martin I Henry

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 07:41:44 AM »

Bill, I've sent you a PM.

Cheers,

Dave R.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2016, 12:57:00 PM »
Update:

I built two prototypes of the 1W4 CDI.  One is basically an OEM variant, and the other has a few modifications.  Since I don't have a bike to test these on, Pete has volunteered to test them for me.  The CDIs should be delivered in about one week.  I haven't told Pete which CDI is which, so the comparison will be unbiased.   I used the same box as the 23X design, so it is a lot smaller than the OEM module, and a few ounces lighter.

So for now, we wait for the testing results.

Best Regards,

Bill


Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 09:24:30 AM »
I might know someone who wants one for my old 250d , but I'm still living in hope you'll have a go at a 4V3!
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Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2016, 09:37:03 AM »
I might know someone who wants one for my old 250d , but I'm still living in hope you'll have a go at a 4V3!

4V3, uhm???  What year is your 250d, because if it's a 77 IT250D, then the 1W4 should fit it.

Bill

Offline Quengamoto

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2016, 02:44:33 PM »
Yes, Pete, this one would have the same types of improvements.  I also want to make one other change to this design.  The OEM module has the CDI capacitor charging through the ignition coil.  Most CDIs have the capacitor charging through a diode, which I think is more efficient and better way to go.  Without the diode, the ignition pulse waveform doesn't look very good, and I think robs some performance.  I don't have a test bike for this model, so I will only be able to bench test the design.

It will be a couple of weeks until I have some ready.  I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your continued support.

Best regards,

Bill

Is there any possibility to do this for a it175 I have the 77-79 models and I will be able to lend you a test bike if your close where are you?

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2016, 02:52:47 PM »
Is there any possibility to do this for a it175 I have the 77-79 models and I will be able to lend you a test bike if your close where are you?
The CDI for the 79 IT175 is already done and tested.  I don't have one for the 77-78 models, which is the 1W2.  Since the 1W2 only fits those two years, I don't know if it's worth the investment.  

Let me give it some thought.

Bill

Offline Martin I Henry

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2016, 07:33:59 AM »

Welcome to the forum Quengamoto.
Please post up some photos of your IT175.

Quote

Is there any possibility to do this for a it175 I have the 77-79 models and I will be able to lend you a test bike if your close where are you?

Original CDI's are cheap and plentiful on US eBay.

Cheers,

Dave R.


Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2016, 08:02:45 PM »
4V3, uhm???  What year is your 250d, because if it's a 77 IT250D, then the 1W4 should fit it.

Bill

Bill the 250D is for my old 77 YZ (1w3) which I sold to a mate the 4v3 is for my 81 yz which has unusually retarded ignition - 10 degrees btc as I recall.
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Offline Martin I Henry

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2016, 09:11:11 PM »

My parts list shows the substitute part number for the CDI being: 2K7-8554011-00.

2K7 being the 1978 YZ250E.

Cheers,

Dave R.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2016, 01:58:11 AM »
Bill the 250D is for my old 77 YZ (1w3) which I sold to a mate the 4v3 is for my 81 yz which has unusually retarded ignition - 10 degrees btc as I recall.

For an 81 YZ250H, it looks like the CDI is a 3R4-85540-10-00.  That is from three different sources.

Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2016, 04:46:59 AM »
Whether it's of any consequence the timing for the yzs is as follows

250 C,D  2.3mm
250 E      1.7mm
250F       1.37mm
250 G,H   O.61mm

The ITs are

IT 250 D,E,F,G. 2.3mm
IT 250 H,J,K.    1.65mm

I think the ITs generally have pulse coils, the YZs do not.

Bill my mistake, you are right that the 3R4 CDI should also fit the 4V3.

Dave odd that the 1W3 and 2K7 are aledgedly the same given the timing differences but because they don't have pulse coils I'm guessing it's the coils that are different either in design or location on the base plate.

Dan
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Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2016, 08:09:47 AM »
Whether it's of any consequence the timing for the yzs is as follows

250 C,D  2.3mm
250 E      1.7mm
250F       1.37mm
250 G,H   O.61mm

The ITs are

IT 250 D,E,F,G. 2.3mm
IT 250 H,J,K.    1.65mm

I think the ITs generally have pulse coils, the YZs do not.

Bill my mistake, you are right that the 3R4 CDI should also fit the 4V3.

Dave odd that the 1W3 and 2K7 are aledgedly the same given the timing differences but because they don't have pulse coils I'm guessing it's the coils that are different either in design or location on the base plate.

Dan

Hi Dan,

I talked about timing a little over on the 23X CDI thread, but I'll touch on it again here.

The spark advance on these Vintage (70's 80's) CDIs is not controlled by the CDI itself, but primarily by the physics of the magneto (rotor) spinning past the trigger (pulser) coil.  There is an exception to this, as with the IT250H/J, but I'll touch on that in a minute. 

So for most CDIs, (6 or 7 wire) the timing works like this.  As the engine speed increases, the rise-time of the trigger pulse (dV/dt) increases until it reaches the limits of the rotor and stator combination being used.  In other words, the faster the magnets move across the coils, the faster and sharper the impulses become.  Your right in your assumption that the coil designs and placement play a part, but that's all part of the physics at work.  The initial timing you mentioned basically sets where the spark fires while kicking, and ultimately the total advance. 

Here is one example of a CDI that is used on two different bikes.  The IT490K/L (which uses the 2W6 CDI) starts off at 0° @ 250 rpm and increases to 18° @ 2000 rpm, at which point it levels off.  The same CDI is also used on the IT175 series, which I believe only advances to 4° total, (pulling this from memory, so don’t hold me to these numbers).  The point is that the CDI doesn’t control the advance, but the physics of the rotor/stator combination does.  I have to mention that the shape of the timing advance curve can be altered slightly through component selections, but without using some sort of processor or complex analog circuit, the impact is minimal.

Now for the exception I mentioned.  The IT250H/J CDI is designed to "hold off" the trigger pulse, starting between 6000 and 7000 rpm.  This effectively retards the ignition timing at high RPMs.  This is accomplished through a 9 wire CDI and some rather complex circuitry.  Keep in mind that this CDI is designed to work on only one particular engine and rotor/stator combination, and so far I have only seen this on the 250H/J.  I imaging that there may be a few other Yamahas with similar circuits.

Bill

Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2016, 09:23:33 AM »
Thanks Bill, that makes sense, although I'm not sure how the yzs work they have no pulser, just the fast and slow speed coils?

My yz 250 H times at 0.61 (10 degrees) static and the same at 7,600 rpm - no idea what it is after that but I reckon I'm shifting not long after, or I was.  I think the stock CDI has 5 wires plus earth?. My new CDI has a sharp curve which then retards as revs increase. If I set it to make max advance at 0.61 btc, I think it will retard to after TDC at high revs. I'm still trying to get the right compromise. Running the bike with a 2mm advance which they recommend makes it ride like a 125 with no bottom end and not much mid.

But at least it runs, which it doesn't with nothing!!

Cheers and sorry for the slight detour!
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Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 11:11:13 AM »
Thanks Bill, that makes sense, although I'm not sure how the yzs work they have no pulser, just the fast and slow speed coils?

My yz 250 H times at 0.61 (10 degrees) static and the same at 7,600 rpm - no idea what it is after that but I reckon I'm shifting not long after, or I was.  I think the stock CDI has 5 wires plus earth?. My new CDI has a sharp curve which then retards as revs increase. If I set it to make max advance at 0.61 btc, I think it will retard to after TDC at high revs. I'm still trying to get the right compromise. Running the bike with a 2mm advance which they recommend makes it ride like a 125 with no bottom end and not much mid.

But at least it runs, which it doesn't with nothing!!

Cheers and sorry for the slight detour!


The trigger for your YZ must be similar to the 250H/J, which does have a pluser coil, but it's not the primary trigger source.  In the case of the 250H/J, the pluser coil is used as a RPM reference pulse to retard the spark at high RPMs.  Instead, the primary trigger comes from the high speed source coil, which has two windings.  One winding is used to supply high-speed charging voltage to the CDI capacitor, and the other is used to trigger the spark.  If anyone doesn't believe this, try disconnecting the white/red wire on your IT250H/J and you'll see that it starts and runs just fine at low RPM.  For that matter, any speed below about 5500 rpm.

I think your YZ might be similar to this.  Your stator should have three wires, red, brown, and white/red.  Since there are only two coils on the stator, one of them probably has two wires connected to it, and the other just one.  In your case the white/red is probably still the trigger, but I can't be certain of that, since I haven't diagnosed the 3R4 CDI yet.  In order to get into developing these types of CDIs, I would have to create a new test engine that uses a rotor instead of a flywheel.  I just don't know if there is enough demand for the 3R4, or similar CDIs, to justify the investment.

Bill

Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 09:18:00 PM »
Yep your right. Bill, 3 wires in, red brown and red/white. 2 wires out to the coils b/w and orange, plus earth.
What's interesting is that when the system failed I tested the charge coils. One was duff so I had it rewound, still no joy, I have a spare cdi, tried that, still.not joy. So I bought a pair of new coils. Still no joy! Although oddly if I swapped the coil leads over it would run but not rev. That was the same with both sets of coils and both cdis. My conclusion was that either both sets of coils were duff or both coils or all of them!  At that point I had a race meeting coming up so bought a universal kit from Hpi.
Not sure about demand but a lot of people race 80 and 81 yzs how many do you need to sell to make it worth while?
Dan
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Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2016, 11:33:31 PM »
Yep your right. Bill, 3 wires in, red brown and red/white. 2 wires out to the coils b/w and orange, plus earth.
What's interesting is that when the system failed I tested the charge coils. One was duff so I had it rewound, still no joy, I have a spare cdi, tried that, still.not joy. So I bought a pair of new coils. Still no joy! Although oddly if I swapped the coil leads over it would run but not rev. That was the same with both sets of coils and both cdis. My conclusion was that either both sets of coils were duff or both coils or all of them!  At that point I had a race meeting coming up so bought a universal kit from Hpi.
Not sure about demand but a lot of people race 80 and 81 yzs how many do you need to sell to make it worth while?
Dan

Dan,

It's hard to believe that you could get two sets of coils and CDIs that produce the same problem, although I guess it's possible.  When you say you swapped the coil leads and it started, are you referring to the red and brown wires?  My first thoughts on your issue is either an open chassis ground, or a shorted kill switch.  If you want to restore it back to OEM, I will try to help you the best I can.

Concerning the 3R4 design, I would have to sell around 20 units to break even on the initial investment, and I would be working for about 5 cents an hour.  I see that HPI sells a CDI replacement for your bike, http://www.hpi.be/item.php?item=CD4218.  But I can't compete with their price.

Bill

Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2016, 09:26:16 AM »
Bill, I know it was really odd .... but yes I swapped the red and brown wire which gave me a weak spark but it wouldn't run above tick over. Kill switch was the first thing I checked and disconnected and the ground checked. Plus I swapped the ignition coil over from a working IT so it wasn't that either.

 I bought the kit from HPI with a mapping switch (should have bought the completely programmable one!). It works well enough but if you look at their graph you'll see what I mean about the retardation at high revs, if I were to drop the peak advance to 0.6mm (10degrees) although I have no idea what rpm mine peaks at but I wring it!  Any help/suggestions greatfully received!

I bought this kit 068K168-2CF

http://www.hpi.be/068.php?cyl=1
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Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2016, 11:50:49 AM »
Bill, I know it was really odd .... but yes I swapped the red and brown wire which gave me a weak spark but it wouldn't run above tick over. Kill switch was the first thing I checked and disconnected and the ground checked. Plus I swapped the ignition coil over from a working IT so it wasn't that either.

 I bought the kit from HPI with a mapping switch (should have bought the completely programmable one!). It works well enough but if you look at their graph you'll see what I mean about the retardation at high revs, if I were to drop the peak advance to 0.6mm (10degrees) although I have no idea what rpm mine peaks at but I wring it!  Any help/suggestions greatfully received!

I bought this kit 068K168-2CF

http://www.hpi.be/068.php?cyl=1

Dan,

I'm happy to help you, as long as the goal is to get your bike working on the OEM ignition, or solve a general electrical or electronic issue. :)  I have no problem giving my time freely to help you guys where I can.  However, I have no stock in HPI, so no joy there. 

At this point, I think we should move the discussion out of the 1W4 thread, and maybe start a new one.  You can also PM or email me directly if you prefer.

Best regards,

Bill

Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2016, 03:03:44 PM »
Start a new thread so we can all benefit from the testing and failure modes.

Offline Devondan

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 06:31:57 PM »
Will do
Dan
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Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2017, 10:34:49 PM »
Well, we got out onto a private road behind some factories in the afternoon and both CDIs ran the bike. We did a couple of warm up runs with the stock one and it worked OK.

We then plugged in prototype 1 and it made a noticeable difference. Did a few runs with it then swapped to prototype 2. Tom (my stunt rider) reckons that 2 had a better spread of power, but the peak power wasn’t as punchy as number 1.

We did a few runs with Number 2 on board then went back to stock and it was closer to number 2.

We then put 1 back on to do another comparison, but something is not right with the bike. I seem to have an oil leak now along the base gasket, and I need to repair the automatic frame lubricator (kicker seal) and automatic chain lubricator (shift seal) as it is dripping everywhere.

I suspect that the base gasket has died hence the bike running rough.

It sounded OK with number 2, but didn’t sound too good not long after, so I am thinking this is where the base gasket has failed.

I have video, but the file sizes are huge - 250meg for prototype 1. Am trying to reduce file size now.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2017, 11:41:05 PM »
Well, we got out onto a private road behind some factories in the afternoon and both CDIs ran the bike. We did a couple of warm up runs with the stock one and it worked OK.

We then plugged in prototype 1 and it made a noticeable difference. Did a few runs with it then swapped to prototype 2. Tom (my stunt rider) reckons that 2 had a better spread of power, but the peak power wasn’t as punchy as number 1.

We did a few runs with Number 2 on board then went back to stock and it was closer to number 2.

We then put 1 back on to do another comparison, but something is not right with the bike. I seem to have an oil leak now along the base gasket, and I need to repair the automatic frame lubricator (kicker seal) and automatic chain lubricator (shift seal) as it is dripping everywhere.

I suspect that the base gasket has died hence the bike running rough.

It sounded OK with number 2, but didn’t sound too good not long after, so I am thinking this is where the base gasket has failed.

I have video, but the file sizes are huge - 250meg for prototype 1. Am trying to reduce file size now.

Thanks, Pete.  Not sure if there is a clear winner here.  I guess its time for full disclosure.  Prototype 1 is based on the stock configuration, but with better parts.  For Prototype 2, I modified the capacitor charging circuit to charge the capacitor more efficiently, which produces a little more output voltage.

Is it your assessment that proto 1 performed better, or do you think you need to do more testing?

Bill

Offline wayne61

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2017, 06:05:08 AM »
My 2c cos its a forum and its good to talk.
Proto 2 for the win, it was so badass it killed a base gasket  ;D
More rational and scientific arguments are available  ;)
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon.

GRIP AND RIP CRAIG AND CHRISSO!!!

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2017, 07:54:37 AM »
My 2c cos its a forum and its good to talk.
Proto 2 for the win, it was so badass it killed a base gasket  ;D
More rational and scientific arguments are available  ;)

So, all I need to do is sell the CDI with some spare base gaskets.  ;D 

Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2017, 08:38:46 AM »
Hmmm, I cant see more output voltage blowing the base gasket.

The road is about 500 metres long I guess and is bitumen, with a dirt track off the end.

My mate who I asked to go for the test rides is a capable rider, whereas I am a numpty.

We did about 3 up and back each on the stock CDI to warm the bike up, and see if we could find brakes.

Then we videoed proto 1 and there seemed like an improvement over stock based on the amount of time the front wheel was on the ground. Which mainly was in 4th gear and 5th gear.

Then we swapped proto 2 in and did the same. Tom reckoned it seemed to have a better spread but not as much peak, but the bike seemed to be running fine.

Then we swapped the stock one back and after a couple of laps, things started to go pear shaped. It wasn’t revving out as well and seemed to fart a bit near over rev. This is when we discovered the oil under the cylinder, so I think that the testing was valid, but it is all seat of the pants stuff.

What do people recommend for compressing video? Or just upload it to youtube?

Offline wayne61

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2017, 08:57:16 AM »
So, all I need to do is sell the CDI with some spare base gaskets.  ;D 

Boys down under jam a leaf in the gap to fix a leaky gasket.
Maybe sell the CDI with a pot plant
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon.

GRIP AND RIP CRAIG AND CHRISSO!!!

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2017, 12:23:14 PM »
Hmmm, I cant see more output voltage blowing the base gasket.

The road is about 500 metres long I guess and is bitumen, with a dirt track off the end.

My mate who I asked to go for the test rides is a capable rider, whereas I am a numpty.

We did about 3 up and back each on the stock CDI to warm the bike up, and see if we could find brakes.

Then we videoed proto 1 and there seemed like an improvement over stock based on the amount of time the front wheel was on the ground. Which mainly was in 4th gear and 5th gear.

Then we swapped proto 2 in and did the same. Tom reckoned it seemed to have a better spread but not as much peak, but the bike seemed to be running fine.

Then we swapped the stock one back and after a couple of laps, things started to go pear shaped. It wasn’t revving out as well and seemed to fart a bit near over rev. This is when we discovered the oil under the cylinder, so I think that the testing was valid, but it is all seat of the pants stuff.

What do people recommend for compressing video? Or just upload it to youtube?

Just upload to YouTube.  As long as it's not over 10 minutes, I don't think it's a problem.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2017, 08:29:42 AM »
Just upload to YouTube.  As long as it's not over 10 minutes, I don't think it's a problem.

Okay Pete, unless you want to have another go testing, I guess we'll use the proto #1 configuration.    

Bill

Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 03:54:43 PM »

Ok, here are the warmup runs:


Offline Bigshorts

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2017, 04:12:36 PM »


 :D hehe ..you said brakes ...lol
When someone hands you a flyer, its like they are saying Here, you throw this away.

IT200 IT490 WR2500 IT175G x2  Ariel Red Hunter .. lots of parts unknown

Offline Martin I Henry

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2017, 06:29:15 AM »

Who said you can't rev an IT400D ?

Music to my ears !

Cheers,

Dave R.


Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2017, 06:38:46 PM »
And here is prototype #1:


Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2017, 06:41:34 PM »

And here is prototype CDI #2:


Offline harko

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2017, 07:21:30 PM »
Great stuff Fred, I cant pick them apart, although I think your test rider was pushing it a bit more, pace wise, on CDI2.

That bike is going well.

Thanks for the work.

Harko
Harko

Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2017, 08:16:27 PM »
Yeah nah she is rooted now mate. Need a base gasket I reckon, but I will measure it up while it is apart. Still have heaps of compression and it still pulls like a 14 year old with a stack of stick books.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2017, 12:00:11 AM »
Thanks for the great videos, Fred.  I certainly can't tell which one is better, although I agree with Harko, the bike seems to be going faster with CDI2.  CDI2 has circuit modifications that produce a cleaner spark discharge, with a little more voltage.  Sure wish I had an engine dynamometer, then I could really tune these things up. 

Bill

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2017, 06:22:01 AM »
Update:

HI guys,

Well, I decided to go with the proto 2 circuit design.  It produces a good deal more voltage than the OEM configuration, has a cleaner spark discharge, and it seems like it ran great on Fred's video.  I just potted six boxes, so they should be ready to go in a couple of days. 

I was wondering if anyone has a 1977/78 DT250 or DT400?  It looks like the 1W4 CDI might work on those bikes too.  If you have one of those bikes, and would like to do some testing, please let me know.  With any luck, maybe someone has one of these bikes and lives close to Fred, then they could borrow prototype #2 and give it a try. ;D

Regards,

Bill


Offline harko

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2017, 08:11:13 AM »
Great stuff Bill.

Harko
Harko

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2017, 10:22:00 AM »
Update:

The CDI-1W4 is ready and up on our website.  Thanks to all, especially Fred, for your help with this effort.

Regards,

Bill


Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2017, 10:14:22 PM »
Smallish update here.

I pulled the bike down after it failed to chooch at the end of the videos. 3 of the reed cage crews had loosened allowing the reeds to unseal. I reckon this was the cause of it stopping, as it copped a fair flogging from my test rider.

Bloody luckily, nothing fell out and was ingested. So I measured the piston at 67.35 from memory, and the bore at 67.58. Should be 0.08 clearance on a 67.5 mm bore which is the second last oversize. Well over.

Ring and gap could just about be measured with a  tape measure.

Then I found the big end noisy. I knew there was a knock in there but was hoping it was piston rock. Nup.

Split the cases, replaced the bearings, got the crank done with a new pin, thrust washers, rod and bearings, rebore and new piston and then started to put it together about lunchtime last Saturday, in preparation for Beaufort Sunday.

Kicked it four times about 9pm Saturday night using prototype CDI1, dressed the bike and went to bed.

Left about 6am Sunday to go to Beaufort Vinduro, and miraculously despite me being last to arrive, we got there before the riders briefing.

I did one lap with prototype CDI1 and despite being a little lean, the bike performed flawlessly.

So, will need to continue frigging with the jetting, but reliability wise, it remains as reliable as a woodburing stove.

I washed it on the way home, couple of kicks and still golden. Should have put prototype 2 on it, but I just ran what was on it.

I did notice that the front wheel seemed a lot lighter than before. Maybe just rings and fresh top end, but Wheelbarrow reckoned in one small section I re-lived my inner sixteen year old. And that was great fun.

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2017, 11:03:20 PM »
Thanks for the update, Fred.  Any photos of you in action at the Vinduro?

Bill

Offline fred99999au

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2017, 07:59:15 AM »
No photos, Bill. Not that I've seen yet, anyway. 70km for a loop so there is a possibility of photos, but I didn't see any photographers.

Offline mboddy

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2017, 10:15:12 AM »
... 1977/78 DT250 or DT400?  It looks like the 1W4 CDI might work on those bikes too.

Here is a cross reference of ignition components for D and E models that MIGHT be able to use this 1W4 CDI.
Bill - can you please confirm why you think your 1W4 CDI is a good replacement for the IT400D/E 1W6 CDI.
I don't just want to know that it runs. I race mine and want to know that I can use it on my race bike without an issue.

                       
Vinduro Penrite Team
1980 IT125G, 1979 IT175F, 1984 IT200L, 1977 IT250D and IT400D

Offline DynoTronix

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2017, 12:09:54 PM »
Here is a cross reference of ignition components for D and E models that MIGHT be able to use this 1W4 CDI.
Bill - can you please confirm why you think your 1W4 CDI is a good replacement for the IT400D/E 1W6 CDI.
I don't just want to know that it runs. I race mine and want to know that I can use it on my race bike without an issue.

                       
I haven't dissected a 1W6 CDI, so I don't know what the differences are.  Based on my research, I believe the 1W4 is a good replacement for the 1W6.  However, I don't have an IT400D/E to try it on.  If I can get a hold of a 1W6 CDI, I can run a comparison on my test engine to see if there are any differences.

Do you live near Fred?  If so, maybe you can borrow one of the prototypes I sent him to see what the performance is like.

If for some reason they are different, I can always make a 1W6, just need a donor unit first to gather all of the necessary voltage and timing stats.

I will try to help any way I can.

Bill



Offline mboddy

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Re: New 1W4 CDI
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2017, 01:11:31 PM »
Thanks Bill
I will see what I can get hold of for you. I would rather you run it on your test bench first.
The race bike is a dirt tracker with pipe, porting, high compression and big carby and runs full throttle most of the time.
So I don't want it to go bang.
Mark   
Vinduro Penrite Team
1980 IT125G, 1979 IT175F, 1984 IT200L, 1977 IT250D and IT400D