Tech Info: Oils

[bholmes]

What premix oil do you run, why and what ratio?

[1983IT490K]

Belray H1R at 50:1

Because I have used it in bikes for over 20 years at this ratio with no problems.

[Jock]

Not this topic again! hahahahaha

[F.Gassit]

It would seem, to the uneducated ( me ), that this question is the equivalent of asking people about the best position for rooting

[Jock]

Well personally I prefer the missionary position. 

[Bigbird]

I like dog shot 

[bholmes]

Wow LOL.  Either how....I was running H1R and went too Bel Ray S2 when I killed my engine.  I'm guessing this was part of the issue.  Amazing you could run 50:1 on it with out a problem!  that's great.  I hate the price of the H1R, but the dealership i think is selling it for a killing.  Costs $23 bucks a quart (hence why I switched) here. 

[Jock]

Holmesy!

50:1 is nothing short of DANGER my friend!
I was running 50:1 for a while then went back to 40:1 and now am running 32:1.

For the record - My IT490K is running best at 32:1.
For the record - I'm using a semi synthetic - ALL AUSTRALIAN 'Penrite' oil.
For the record - I purchased a 20 litre (4.4 gallons) drum from someone for $130.
For the record - That's a high quality semi synthetic oil at $6 per litre (0.22 gallons)

Here we go again with the 'dreaded' oil thread. 

 

[Jock]

I may be wrong but I gather you Americano's are quite biased towards "Belray" oils?

Yamalube 2R
This seems to be a very reasonably priced, high performance oil at $7.20 per QUART.
Link: http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Sports/Landing4a16925.html




And here is some interesting reading for our US counterparts from a guy in the states that
tested the following oils at a 32:1 mix in his 2007 YZ250.

We don't focus on these oils in Australia so his comments are not that much help to us but
it may help you decide on an oil Holmsey.



Golden Spectro: This oil did a good job of protecting the piston and cylinder. The piston was a little shiny on the intake side, but wear was within specs, and the piston and cylinder otherwise looked OK. There was a good coating of residual oil in both the top and bottom of the engine. It is a dirty-burning oil, however. It leaves a lot of carbon deposits on the piston crown and head, and really gums up the ring grooves and the power valves. And this oil spooges! No matter how sharp you try to jet, the spooge simply can’t be completely eliminated. I wouldn’t run this oil again unless I had no alternative, it’s just too dirty. As a side note that may or may not be related to the oil, this is the only pre-mix that I have ever had an engine failure while using, with the thrust-bearings on the KDX250 crank pin seizing. It was probably just a fluke, and I can’t pin it down to lubrication failure, but it’s always stuck in my head.

Maxima Super-M: This oil didn’t protect the piston as well as I would like to see in my engines. The piston was noticably shiny and scuffed on both the intake and exhaust sides, and the top-end was almost dry upon tear-down, although the bottom-end seemed to be well lubed. The ring grooves were reasonably clean, but the piston crown and head had significant deposits, as well as the powervalves, although not as bad as the Golden Spectro. Another oil that I just can’t recommend, it just doesn’t seem to leave the engine well lubricated or clean. I also felt this oil left an off-color on the plugs, making jetting a little more difficult.

Maxima Castor 927: Very slight scuffing on the intake side of the piston, but over-all everything looked good. The ring grooves had slight deposits, and the piston crown and head had slight build-up that was well within reason. The powervalves were gummy, but not to the point of seizing or failing, again within reason for a non-synthetic oil, and excellent for a castor-based oil. Both the top and bottom-end of the engine were very oily and well-lubed with plenty of residual build-up. And the smell of this oil is wonderfully sweet, better than any other oil I’ve used. I liked using this oil just for the smell! Overall a good oil with no real bad points.

Redline: This was a strange oil. The piston and cylinder looked good, with minor shiny spots but no scuffing, and everything was reasonably clean and well-lubed. But this oil actually left surface rust on the crank wheels, and tarnished the carb brass. It also had a tendency to gum up the carb jets for some reason. How a metal surface can be both oily and have rust on it is beyond me, but clearly this oil lacks any proper corrosion-inhibitors, or it has such a high ester content that it has hygroscopic properties. Whichever is the case, I would never use it again, nor could I recommend it.

Mobil 1 MX2T: The piston and cylinder looked great with this oil. No noticable shiny spots or scuffing on the piston at all. The top and bottom of the engine were well lubed with plenty of residual build-up, and even the powervalves were oily and lubed. No other oil that I’ve used compares to the cleanliness of this oil. The piston, head, and powervalves were nearly spotless, the valves didn’t even really need cleaning. If I were a serious racer, this would be my oil of choice. The only reason I no longer use it is the awful, acrid-smelling exhaust it produces. Since I just play-ride with my buddies, they all complained srongly about the smell when they were riding behind me, and my brother-in-law went so far as to tell me he would ban me from riding with him if I didn’t change oils.

Bell Ray H1R: This oil was similar to the Super-M in every way. It left the piston shiney and scuffed-looking, although the top-end wasn't left as dry looking. Deposits were less than with the Super-M, but still heavy enough on the valves to be a problem for riders that run their top-ends for extended periods of time. I could see this oil gumming up the valves enough to cause them to stop functioning. An acceptable but un-exceptional oil.

Yamalube 2R: For a dino-based semi-synthetic oil, this is an exceptional product that performs as well as any full-synthetic that I have used. The piston and cylinder always look good, with no significant shiny spots or scuffing. The ring grooves, piston crown, and combustion chamber were very clean, with only a light circular carbon pattern on the crown and head. The valves are almost as clean as with MX2T, although not clean enough to not need removing and cleaning. The top and bottom of the engine are always well lubed with plenty of residual oil, even on the powervalves. This is my oil of choice, and I whole-heartedly recommend it to everyone, racer and casual rider alike.

[F.Gassit]

I learn more every day from this forum. Invaluble information i couldn't find out anywhere else.....................Jock likes push-up's and BB does pelvic thrusts to keep fit ...................Whats with you and monkeys BB

[Griffo]

Kato Loves a bit of Squat Thrush from what I hear...?! Either that or Squat Thrust...?! Sounds Girly... Just like his proffered style of riding.... 

[F.Gassit]

does a padded bra count as body armour? ............

[Griffo]

LOL!

BTW, The correct answer is yes!

[F.Gassit]

i think Knee guards look abit out of place under stockings though

[F.Gassit]

Jocks info on the oil comparo is great,.........thank you again Jock

[Griffo]

Oh yeah... Oils aren't they great! Especially when they stay inside your shocks! 
Mmm Stockings 

[Bigbird]

Kato i believe we all cum from monkeys 
Interesting read about the oils,i see he didnt test motul, 50:1 is safe as houses if your jetting is correct,i have run 60:1 and 70:1 in the past with correct jetting,just remember this rule,the higher the RPM turned the more oil you run in your fuel,when my IT250 is rebuilt i will run it at 40:1 motul full synthetic a lot of older folk just never got with the changes in times and my father who is an excellent mechanic is one of them,he grew up with castrol mineral oil as that was all that was avalable back then,he swears by it,i myself wouldnt oil my chain with it i find it crap, he likes the good old 25:1 mineral as he always says,well we now have a hell of a lot better oils now that can be run safely(IF YOUR JETTING IS CORRECT) up to 60:1 70:1 i have run yz465s with motul 800 at 65:1 at WOT(WIDE OPEN THROTTLE) for over 1 hour at a time with out even a hicup,however its the shutdown or throttle chop thats the killer,we would run a seperate cable to a bar mounted lever that would operate the choke so after a long high speed run just as you are about to chop the throttle you would pull on the bar mounted choke lever that was a safe way of not having a seizure,i believe that a lot of the Baja desert races in the states run a similar set up to stop there 2 strokes from seizing when the throttle was chopped....BB

[F.Gassit]

I don't wanna see cum from monkeys!!

[1983IT490K]

Wow LOL.  Either how....I was running H1R and went too Bel Ray S2 when I killed my engine.  I'm guessing this was part of the issue.  Amazing you could run 50:1 on it with out a problem!  that's great.  I hate the price of the H1R, but the dealership i think is selling it for a killing.  Costs $23 bucks a quart (hence why I switched) here. 

I buy H1R for $60 per 4 litres.

I won a bottle Motul 800 the other day and will have to try it at some stage.  It is based on esters!!!  Not sure what it means exactly but they say it is better!  Don't know what ratio's are recommend for it though.

[Griffo]

Last time I bought 2 stroke oil I purchased a 25L drum of Morris Oils 2Hss Ground force Semi synthetic. $180 + GST. Including Gst, It's still less than $10/L.
I would've ordered some drums of Penrite Hi-Per, but I ran out of cash. That stuff is great. Burns clean too.
This Morris stuff isn't as clean, and makes it hard to read the plug. Either that or my crankseals are on the way out!
For us Aussies, Keep an eye out in Supercheap Auto for Penrite Hi-per. Was cheaper there per L than the local rep was willing to do per L, even if I purchased a 20L drum!

[F.Gassit]

I saw some of that and wondered if it was any good. You find it ok? I'm running some Castrol Active something or other. Seems ok and burns clean. Got it at the pervayor of quality merchandise that mentioned

[Griffo]

Ouch! That is the dear sh_t isn't it!

When I had a perv up the pipe ole, after running on Hi-per at 20:1, Everything was clean as a whistle, and it was all nice and wet with oil. Very clean!
Never had a problem with oil fouled plugs either.

I'll be ripping the bike apart soon, so I'll let you know how this 2HSS is going...

[F.Gassit]

Two types of activ something or other, One ( i got) $14 for a litre, other $35 a liter. Just got a liter for that days riding thats on the vids i posted. Want to try the Yamalube. BB said 35 to 40:1. I went half way and have been running 38:1........seems ok, need to figure out how to do a good plug-chop and check it.

[dmc12d]

Oils is an interesting topic, everyone has their own opinion, I run Motorex cross power 2t, buy it in 4l $90 not cheap but it says it can be run up to 100:1
I mix it at 50:1 in all my bikes and it seems great, smells good too! I tried H1R but it seemed to drool a bit, I had the top of the wr500 motor apart not long ago and the piston and bore look good.
BB. I have always thought it would be a good idea to set up a remote choke on the WR, the bike runs great under power but its the throttle chop after a good WOT run when it seems to sound lean and give a little detonate. I have read an old article on yz490 that was done up for desert racing and that had the remote choke on it.
George

[Griffo]

I did try 32:1 on the Yamalube. But the bike ran better on 24:1. So I thought, fuckit! 20:1 is easier to mix. Plus my crank bearings have so much play in them, it's not worth measuring how rooted they are! But still no noise. Turns over smooth, without a plug in that is!

[Griffo]

Remote choke was only for desert runs, at WOT. Choke was used to keep motor cool in an attempt to stop it from melting down!
Better off modifying the carb to run an adjustable power jet.
My 465 Hardly ever used to ping, untill I got it out in some deep sand at the RDR. That loaded the motor right up! sh_t it pinged its head off then!

[Bigbird]

dmc12d...i agree motorex is my second choice of oil its great,i dont buy it as the rep up here that sells it is a c__khead so i wont buy it,i mean not just a c__khead he has a plaque on his wall saying that he is a c__khead,mate if there was c__khead comp of the century this guy would win by a country mile,great oil though

[Bigbird]

Hey Griffo try running less oil in your fuel if your pinging,i have a new nickname for you(GREASY)sh@T i am surprised your old IT can even fire that oil/fuel at that 20:1 you run or maybe i should call you PUFFING BILLY i bet there is no mosquitoes near you when your riding

[Griffo]

It Loves the sh_t!

[bholmes]

That was a really great article you put up there Jock.  I much appreciate that.  I was actually starting to lean towards yamalube but that settles it! My only gripe with yamalube is back in the day my cousin used to run it and I hated the smell of it!  Oh well...I won't be riding behind the YZ so I don't care!! 

[bholmes]

Jock, might be a good idea to post the oil article in a FAQ section or as a sticky....or maybe it was and I missed it because i'm a looser LOL either how....

[coza77]

i still run castrol R30 40:1 sometimes 50:1 in mine...those who follow me love the smell of burnt castrol...its one way to lead and smell good whilst doing it....lol...on internal inspection though leaves a hell of a lot of carbon residue sh_t...nothing  that doesnt clean up with kero and  thriple 0 steel wool

[Evan]

im mixing 40:1 Yamalube and it works in everything from my leaf blower to the IT200

[Cookie]

Wow, with today's oil technology I'm surprised that someone is still using Castrol R, talk about old school.  Personally I wouldn't touch bean oil with a barge pole, it gums everything up big time.  OK I suppose if you're into tearing engines down every 5 minutes to clean crap out of them.

The only thing in it's favour, is when used, it sure smells like a 2T's should. 

Personally I use Silkolene Comp 2 at 32:1, works OK for me.

Cheers

Cookie

[dalesween]

Yeah bigbird i run motul 800 @ 50:1 in my ktm 360 and it runs clean as a whistle.Will probably knock the IT250 back to 40:1 or maybe 32:1

[Bikejunky69]

When i bought the KX60 they musta ran Castor Oil in it.. Had a bad time cleaning out the carby was all crusty with yellow scum.. Although smells beautifull.. Not good for the extra work.. I hate work..
Cheers BJ

[Grim86]

super M all the way at 40:1 never had a problem with foulin plugs gummin up the cylinder or power valve and top end lasts longer

[axel]

Personally I use Silkolene Comp 2 at 32:1, works OK for me.

Hey Cookie, I tried the Comp 2 and found the Comp 2 "Plus" mixed with fuel better (not as thick) and has smokes less than the Comp 2. It's a couple dollars difference from memory so I believe it was worth the extra. It's designed to be cleaner on the power valves (even though you may not have them!).
I think if Silkolene starts again with the naming conventions it would help product sales. The only way to work out what to use I found was to email or ring them up! Labeling and descriptions are a joke. Idiots.

[Cookie]

Yea, Axel I noticed that with Comp 2, the bike is putting out a smoke screen that James Bond would be proud of.  I'll try the Comp 2 plus next time.

Cheers

Cookie

[shane005566]

For years we ran a BP powerstroke senthetic in our motocrossers as Dad used to be a BP agent, We had no problems but this was in the early ninties. I once used some ELF premix which the local dealer gave to me to try, I seized the main bearings first race on my KX250. I used mobil in my cr500 for a while but it scuffed the skirts, now i only use motul 800 at 32.1 in the 500 and 40.1 in my KTM 250 as for the WR500 i havn't had a air cooled 2 stroke before but i will try the motul probably at 32 also. I also raced the finke desert race a few years back on the CR500 and ran a couple sizes richer on the pilot to stop seizure on back off, also you can hit the kill switch to stop the spark on rundown if you are still worried. I had the mixture at 28.1 for a bit of security as well

[Poppy]

     I think your pretty right with your assesment jock i can remember when bel-ray and a few of those other so called 2 stroke  oils first came out the makers all said its dear but you can run it at 100-to1 that turned out to be frogs  crap with motors seizing up all over the country  when tested it was not much better than  (KEO  ::)ENE  ) thats why pistons look shiny and scratchy with no carbon deposits on them .  me i use  33.1 yamalube with a dash of upper cylinder lubricant with it this keeps the plug clean and the bearings and seals lubricated  (oil is oil)  dont worry about a little bit smoke its when it stops smoking you got a problem .  Poppy 

[itnutter]

I have used em all..Belray, Amsoil, BP Syn, Castrol Syn. Motul Syn. The lsit goes on. I think the best oil is the one that is cheap and has reliable viscosity and dilution stability. The Shell sx2 semi syn is a pretty good balance. I run all my ratio at 40:1, jetted and plugged accordingly. I have never had issue with seizing or big ends jumping out of bed. And at least I can afford it. some of thos full syn are very dear. And to my best understanding I cannot see or feel the difference

[milkman]

When i just started,y bike up again after 15+ years, I went with what was still sitting in the autolube tank - i think it was castrol mower mix oil? It was flouro kermit green and really thick

Switched to Penrite Hyper now (on advice from here), at whatever ratio the autolube is putting it in at